GROOMED — A Survivor’s Story of Empowerment

In this deeply personal episode of The Healing Lounge, Marcia Williams—licensed therapist, narcissistic abuse recovery coach, and survivor—shares the raw truth of her 30-year marriage to a narcissist. For the first time on the podcast, Marcia steps fully into her own story, joined by her sister for an intimate interview about the journey that inspired her book, GROOMED: Life Married to a Narcissist and How I Overcame Narcissistic Abuse.

Marcia opens up about the shame she carried in silence, the heartbreaking reality of reactive abuse, and the fear of telling the truth about her marriage. She reveals the hardest part of writing GROOMED: being brutally honest about her most painful, hidden experiences. Yet through that honesty, she discovered the power of vulnerability and the freedom that comes when we break the silence.

This episode is more than a survivor’s story—it’s a guidepost of hope for anyone who has felt trapped, silenced, or broken by narcissistic abuse. Marcia’s healing journey reminds us that while leaving may feel impossible, peace and freedom are real and attainable. She explains how breaking trauma bonds, reclaiming her voice, and building community were vital steps in moving from surviving to thriving.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The reality of living in a marriage with a narcissist—and why leaving isn’t simple.
• What reactive abuse is, and why survivors often carry misplaced shame for it.
• The courage it takes to tell your story and write about taboo experiences.
• How breaking trauma bonds opens the door to peace and empowerment.
• Why sharing personal stories helps survivors everywhere feel less alone.
• How Marcia now uses her journey to help others reclaim their identity and freedom.

If you’ve ever felt isolated in your pain, this conversation will remind you that you are not alone—and that healing is possible.

Marcia now walks alongside survivors through one-on-one coaching, group programs, and her Passage to Peace community. 

Keywords: narcissistic abuse, healing journey, empowerment, Marcia Williams, GROOMED, trauma bonds, reactive abuse, survivor story

For 30 years, Marcia Williams lived in silence inside a marriage with a narcissist. In her powerful memoir GROOMED: Life Married to a Narcissist and How I Overcame Narcissistic Abuse, she shares the raw truth of that journey and the courageous steps she took to reclaim her peace.

This book is more than a survivor’s story. It’s a message of hope, resilience, and empowerment for anyone trapped in the cycle of narcissistic abuse. 

Transcript

Marcia Williams, LPC (00:49)

I am so excited about this very special episode. I am honored to be interviewed by my sister, number one. But more than that, she is my publicist, my business operations director, my COO, my CFO, my advocate, my biggest fan, my cheerleader, and my bestie. So, sister, welcome.

Tasha Collier (01:18)

I'm so excited for this, so excited.

Marcia Williams, LPC (01:21)

I am too excited and nervous because you know, we keep it real. That's what sisters do. And I'm excited though, because you have been with me and experienced my ups and downs, my wins and my downfalls. And you've been there talking with me or about me every step of the way. So I thought that this would be a great idea to give you an opportunity to learn more about me, the most important person in your life.

Tasha Collier (01:53)

The absolute most important person in my life. Yes, yes, I do have some very good questions that I would just, that I just can't wait to hear how you have processed the situation of what you've gone through over the past 30 years in your current state of healing. So that's what I want to hear from the perspective of your current state of healing. I'm excited to see how you answer these questions based on where you are now.

Marcia Williams, LPC (02:18)

Awesome. I'm excited. Let's go

Tasha Collier (02:20)

All right, well first, let's just start with the book. Tell me, tell us all what inspired you to write "GROOMED".

Marcia Williams, LPC (02:28)

You know, I have always wanted to write a book. I have always enjoyed writing and it's always been a passion of mine from grade school. So all throughout my life, I wanted to write a book. I've always been big on journaling. I've always been big on writing. I never knew what I was going to write about, but I knew I wanted to write and after my 30 year marriage to now whom I know is a narcissist, I now realize that my whole life is an inspiration for this book. So that's what inspired me.

Tasha Collier (03:03)

Okay, and tell us the full title of the book.

Marcia Williams, LPC (03:06)

"GROOMED: Life married to a narcissist and how I overcame narcissistic abuse".

Tasha Collier (03:10)

All right, love it. Okay, so tell me what was the hardest chapter for you to write?

Marcia Williams, LPC (03:16)

Mmm. That is a really good question. I think the hardest chapter to write about, and it was kind of sprinkled throughout the book, but, I think a lot of survivors will relate to this. It's really hard to be extremely honest about what went on behind closed doors. Part of it has to do with not wanting the not wanting to make the narcissist look bad.

I mean, that is still a thing because of the years and years of conditioning of you don't air your dirty laundry. You don't talk to, know, share our business. So that was the hardest part. Anytime I had to tell the truth about some things that were shameful for me, things that I felt guilty about.  And I'm just going to put it right out there. The biggest one was my affair. The fact that I had an affair is very painful and was shameful for me. And, you know, I wrote in the book of how I vowed to, make up for that for the rest of my life because it wasn't who I was. But now in the present, I realized that it was reactive abuse because of what I was experiencing in my marriage and even before my marriage with my ex. That's what, and it's not an excuse. I will always say it's not an excuse, but reactive abuse is real. And that was probably my lowest point. Well, one of my lowest points in my marriage.

Tasha Collier (04:47)

So how do you feel now sharing this information, especially coming from a place of being conditioned, as you said, to never ever air your dirty laundry. And now you are sharing with hundreds of thousands, millions of people across the world, some of your most private experiences. And I could never imagine doing that. Like I just, I couldn't imagine doing that. So how does it make you feel today when you are talking to clients or when you are on one of your social media platforms and you're sharing some pretty intense or dark moments of your life.

Marcia Williams, LPC (05:30)

You know, you're probably not going to believe this, but I'm happy about it. It literally, when I can tell a client, I really do get it. I really do understand. I really do know how that feels. I really have been there and worse. And the thing about it is, is I haven't told it all yet.

There is, this book, my book "GROOMED" has only touched the tip of the iceberg. And that's because it is so deep and so heavy. But on a broader, more general scale of narcissistic abuse and what I experienced, I am happy to be able to say that happened to me. Now, am I glad that I went through that? Am I glad that I experienced that? No. But now that I am walking in my purpose, I see that I had to experience every bit of those 30 years, 35 years, I'm going to need all my years. Okay. 35 years. I had to experience all of it so that I could be here today to help the people that I feel led to help and to guide them to finding their peace and their freedom. So for that reason, it makes me happy.

Tasha Collier (06:48)

And do you think perhaps people may view you differently once they hear such personal stories, especially for you as a therapist, when people look up to you as a therapist, do you think they may view you differently in any way because of the fact that you fell for this type of experience in any way?

Marcia Williams, LPC (07:10)

You know, I have to say that to be honest, sometimes it's in the back of my mind. Should I share this? You know, is this too much? You know, I still have that conditioning in my head, but, but, but, but I have never once regretted sharing anything. I have never felt like, I shouldn't have shared that, that was probably too much. they probably can't handle that. I have never experienced that. And I get positive feedback. I get compassion. I get gratitude. I get appreciation for my courage. And I do have to say that it is courage that I didn't know I had, but it is and I'm really glad about it because people need to know they're not alone. And that's why I went through it so that I could tell you you're not alone. So I never regret it, but I'm still very careful because clinically speaking, I'm always gonna meet the client where they are. And so I'm not gonna just, you know, I'm your therapist, I'm your coach, you're not mine. So whatever I share with my clients and the people I coach, it's for their benefit and not for my benefit, even though we're on this journey together. And so me sharing and helping someone else helps me as well.

Tasha Collier (08:32)

Yeah, yeah. So a few questions about the marriage. When you were in the marriage, was there any point where one, where you knew the word narcissist, and two, where you recall thinking, I'm in a narcissistic relationship. Did you know in the 30 years, in 35 years actually, to include the time you were dating, that he was a narcissist?

Marcia Williams, LPC (08:54)

The reason why I love this question is because I'm speaking to all of the men and women out there who are educated, who are in leadership roles, who are in corporate America. They may be attorneys or doctors or teachers, educators, people who say all the time, how could this happen to me?  How could this happen to me? I help people, I work with people, I'm in this role. This is not supposed to happen to me. So I love this question because here I am a therapist. I've been a therapist for 22 years. I was married for 30 years. You can do the math and see that I was a therapist for the majority of my marital career.

Not once. Not once did I say I'm married to a narcissist until I was ready to say, I'm not okay, this is not okay, until I came out of denial. So to answer your question, no, I never said to myself in 29 years, I'm in a relationship with a narcissist. I'm married to a narcissist. Now, did I say I'm married to an arrogant, selfish, self-centered, braggadocious, needy, attention-seeking, and the list goes on and on, person. So, did I know I was married to a narcissist? Yes. Did I use that word? No. Does that make sense?

Tasha Collier (10:21)

Yes, yes, okay. And did he ever during that time make you feel like maybe you were the one, even though the word narcissist wasn't used between the two of you, did he ever make you feel like the one who was the narcissist or maybe who wanted all the attention or who wanted to be big, big as, I don't know, big as he was or big as we thought he was like larger than life. Like did he ever think that you were the one who was trying to portray that type of person and not him.

Marcia Williams, LPC (10:52)

All the time, all the time. He told me he would tell me often I'm vain. He told me that a lot. I'm vain. because, if I got a new hairdo,

Tasha Collier (10:55)

How so?  Why do you think he would say that?

Marcia Williams, LPC (11:08)

I would be looking at my phone in the mirror or in the camera and I would take selfies or I would send you selfies or the kids or something like that. If I had on something cute, I would send it to mom or to you or and he would always say, you are so vain. And it made me self conscious.

Tasha Collier (11:26)

But why do you think that bothered him?

Marcia Williams, LPC (11:28)

Wow, that's a good question. And I can only tell you what I know now. He didn't want me to know to believe that I was special. He didn't want me to think I was special. Now, here's the interesting part. He would always tell me I'm special, I'm beautiful, I'm amazing. Girl, you are so smart and talented, you need to do this, that, and the other. So he didn't have a problem telling me when I looked good or telling me when I looked bad. But here's the thing. He wanted it to come from him. He wanted to be in control of that, just like everything else. So he wanted to control how pretty I thought I was or not. And so his compliments of me.

If they came from him, then he could control and manage myself perception. Because like I said, he was gonna make it clear when he thought I was beautiful and when I wasn't. Like you can't go out the house looking like that or you're not going with me looking like that. no, that doesn't look good. Or that makes your butt look flat. Or that makes you look too masculine.  Don't lift weights because you already have broad shoulders. So don't do any weightlifting. And the list goes on and on. So although he had no problem telling me when I looked attractive or when I was pleasing to him, if it didn't come from him, then I was being vain.

Tasha Collier (12:59)

Got it. You know, this,  I have a thought that I think is really interesting. I think back to who you were then and who you are now. And one of the things that stands out most to me is that I look at what you accomplished then versus what you ⁓ have accomplished today. And I'm just in awe I'm in awe of what you've been able to accomplish on your own in the last three years versus all that you accomplished with him in 35 years. And I think you've accomplished more in the last three years than you've accomplished professionally and personally. I mean, all of it. I think you've accomplished more in the last three years than you did with him in 35. I know the answer to why, but I want you to tell me why do you think and if you agree with that.

Marcia Williams, LPC (13:51)

Hmm, I'm curious to know what your answer is. Let's see. My answer is. I kind of have multiple answers. So one answer is that I aspired to be a good wife. And so because that was my fantasy, that was my dream, that was my true desire was to be a mother and a wife. I wanted a family.  And so I was conditioned early on that in order to be a good wife, you know, by him, I was conditioned by him. In order to be a good wife, these are the things you need to do. This is what I expect from you. And I don't want to make it sound like he didn't give me anything in return, but everything was conditional. So I didn't aspire to be more than a really good wife and mother. Now, did I want, did I move up in my career over 30 years? Absolutely. but like you said, compared to my growth in the past three years, it doesn't compare. And I think it's because I was okay with settling for being who he wanted me to be. And so even if he encouraged me to do more, I think he has said before, you should open your own practice. Let's take that. For example, he said, and this was years ago, within the 30 years, you remember that you should open. Wow. That's awesome. So. And so I did, I opened my own practice.

Tasha Collier (15:14)

I remember that.  I remember that very clearly.  But the question is, why didn't it happen?

Marcia Williams, LPC (15:30)

I wasn't given the freedom or encouragement to give to my practice what it required because first and foremost, I'm a wife. Now that was his expectation and, I believed that. so building a practice, which I now know because I now am, am, you know, thriving in my practice. It requires time and dedication.

And we all know that a narcissist does not want anything to take away from the time and attention that they need from you. So yeah, great idea. You should go start a practice. Well, did you know that meant I was gonna be not home 12 hours a day? Did you know that meant I was gonna be trying to market and get clients? Did you know that meant continuing education classes? Did you know that meant all the paperwork?

Tasha Collier (16:18)

Right.

Marcia Williams, LPC (16:22)

Okay, so yeah, sounds good and thanks for the encouragement, but then I'm penalized or I feel punished because now I'm not, I'm never home. Now I'm not being a good wife. And so now it's a problem. And interestingly enough, I'm going to take it a step further. Even when we had children, they took time and attention away from him because I wanted to be a good mother but a good mother is gonna tend to their children and you know, maybe a little coddling, maybe a little too much, maybe a little too this and that, but even that was a problem because I didn't want to do the things he wanted to do anymore. I wanted to stay home and be a mom. So anything that got in the way of what he needed from me was a problem.

Tasha Collier (17:10)

I just think that he was so good at manipulating you to make you believe that he was the sole focus of your life. And he did such a great job at making sure that you believe that fully. So much so that you would be willing to put your dreams on hold in order to make him stand out or be the best he could be or just simply to be happy. And so I think there's also this unspoken feeling that you may have had maybe like, I don't want to outshine him.  Maybe.

Marcia Williams, LPC (17:51)

That's a good one. No, not maybe.

Tasha Collier (17:53)

I think there was a lot of potential that you had in a lot of things, but you wanted to make sure that he could always be the larger than life, the one in the forefront, the one who takes the stage and the one who, I don't know, gets all the glory. And that being said, I want to go back a little bit towards the book. The book is called GOOMED: Life Married to a Narcissist..." Can you explain what "groomed" means? Why did you use the word "groom"? Why did you choose that? Because there's a lot to be said about that word. I want to, and we don't seem to use that word a lot. I don't hear that word a lot in our conversations on your social platforms or what have you. So tell me about the word grooming and I wonder if you use that term often with your clients or with others.

Marcia Williams, LPC (18:49)

Really good question. And though I don't use that term often, it does come up with my clients because as we do healing work, it requires looking back. How did I get to where I am today? And when you look back and identify red flags now that you didn't see then, that means you were groomed. Groomed is a form of conditioning, manipulative conditioning, because you don't know it's happening to you. So everyone in a relationship with a narcissist was groomed in some way, or form. And it's interesting that you asked this question because I bet you hear the word more commonly in sexual abuse, know, pedophiles, let's just say…

Hopefully this doesn't trigger anyone. That's a trigger alert. Um, but in sexual assault and sexual situations, uh, there is a grooming period, you know, some candy little girl or things like that. There is a grooming process that is way more obvious, way more obvious, but in a relationship with a narcissist, someone who is trying to gradually gain control of you without your knowledge, which is what grooming is, you're much more likely to not see it as grooming and not call it grooming because again, what proof do we have? We chose this person. I wanted to marry this person. Why would I marry someone who groomed me? Why would I want to marry someone who groomed me? So it just doesn't fit. It doesn't make sense to the naked eye for lack of better word.

It doesn't make sense, but I was absolutely groomed because looking back hindsight is 20/20, everything that happened leading up to the marriage itself. And in the first few years of the marriage set the stage for what he was expecting to have happen all along. All along was all planned.  In his mind. Now I will say consciously or subconsciously because in his mind, and I can tell you, cause I asked him in his mind, he was just giving me what I wanted. I Can't even keep a straight face when I say that it is insanity, insanity, because never did I say I wanted it, but that's what he will say is true. Now my part 50-50 rule my part is because I am a people pleaser. I would say yes when I wanted to say no. I would acquiesce when I really didn't want to.  I would give in thinking this will please him. He will see that I am a good wife. I'm down, you know, I want to please him. I want to make him happy. I want to be a good wife. So this will show him this is not, this could not possibly turn into a thing for the rest of my life. And it did. So grooming is when you, you don't know that their intention is to put you in a position to where you think you're safe and you're not.

Tasha Collier (21:55)

My next question is a two part question. First, it's, do you think he really loved you? And I mean, really loved you. And second part of that question is what I know of him today from the things that he said is that he would give anything to be back with you. And he just loves and misses you so much. So do you think now as well, he truly does still love you and always loved you and truly wants you back in his life?

Marcia Williams, LPC (22:28)

Okay, that's enough trulys!  Cause truly, no. So, truly he loved, loved what I supplied him with. Period.

Tasha Collier (22:38)

You really don't think he really loved you.

Marcia Williams, LPC (22:42)

No, he really, really, really loved how much I loved him. He really, really loved how much I was willing to do anything for him. He really, really loved how I treated him like a king. He really, really loved how good I made him look to everyone else. He really, really loved how easy it was to get me to do what he wanted me to do. He really, really loved...  And the list goes on. So yes, he really loved and then fill in the blank. Very, very different from unconditional love. It was very conditional love. 

Part two of your question. He would love to have me back because he still really, really loves what I'm capable of doing for him. So do I think he loved me? Yes. But it was a selfish love. was a conditional love. It was a, as long as you make me feel the way I think I am and who I am, then I love you to death.  Guess what? As soon as I stopped doing those things, he said, I don't like the new “Marcia”.

Tasha Collier (23:55)

Right, right, that's true. Okay, okay.

Marcia Williams, LPC (23:58)

It's so hard for survivors to think that they never loved you. And I want survivors to know they did love you. They do love you. They love, love, love you. They truly love you as long as long as you submit, as long as you allow them to manipulate you, as long as you stay in your place, stay in your lane, as long as you don't make them look bad, as long as you, then yes, they love you to death. Which is why I answered your question by saying, he loved what I supplied him with. They love what you do for them.  That's their idea of love.

Tasha Collier (24:46)

Yeah.  So one of my last questions for you is, sometimes today in your current healed state. Do you miss him?

Marcia Williams, LPC (24:56)

Hmm. You know, that's funny because my 31-year-old son is here staying with me, visiting me rather temporarily. And, you know, every now and then I do have to interact with my ex for co-parenting purposes. And so my son was here visiting and, you know, he needed some help with some items for his new job.

I always say, check with your dad first. You know, I'm always gonna give it to you, but we're not letting him off the hook of being a dad. Check with your dad first. And so he got his dad on FaceTime. And now I've been no contact with his dad for nine, 10 months, almost a year. And so he had his dad on FaceTime and he was talking to his dad and of course his dad said he didn't have it.

And his dad wanted to talk to me. Long story short, his dad wanted to talk to me. My son said, Mom, Dad wants to talk to you, but I don't think you should talk to him. And I'm like, why? Love, what's wrong? Mom, just, I don't want you to fall for any of his tricks, because he really misses you. And I'm like, love, it's okay. It's okay. I got the phone. Hey, how are you?  Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. Yeah. So, you know, he needs this, this and that. Okay. Da da da. Okay. Great. Great. Yeah. And then of course he wants to try to extend the conversation. Yeah. Doing great. And then, you know, he even tried to throw a love bomb in. I'm expecting all of this. He tried to throw a love bomb and he went, and I went, right back at you. Bye bye. So, you know, and so my son and anybody else would be like, don't, you know, stay away, stay away. But I am so, and I tell this to my clients, the trauma bond is broken. And I told my son, I said, love, I would never, I'm too happy. I am too peaceful. I am too… Everything. I would never. And not only that, I look at him differently. This is how you know when you're healed. This is how you know when the trauma bond is broken. I don't see him the same way I did when I was married to him. He looks completely different. Completely different. And so even that moment of the FaceTime, I wasn't looking at the man that I had submitted 35 years of my life to. I was looking at somebody who doesn't know how sick they are and I have empathy for him, but I will never give him my empathy again. So this is where forgiveness comes in. This is where letting go comes in. This is where you will no longer have power over my emotions anymore comes in.  I am so free. I can talk to you. I can interact with you. Now I needed the no contact first. I needed to get a thousand miles away first. I needed to be angry first. I needed to heal first in therapy. I needed a lot and it's a journey. I'm not done. I'm not, look at me. I'm so healed, but I can guarantee you that life is, it will only exist in my books. It will only exist in my teachings. It will only exist for the benefit of helping someone else heal, but I am not that person anymore. And I love me for that.

Tasha Collier (28:11)

So tell us, where can everyone find your book?

Marcia Williams, LPC (28:13)

Amazon my book is on Amazon and my book is on my website www.thepassagetopeace.com and I just want everyone to know that that's just the first book I'm working on my next book because my experience Helped me to create the P.E.A.C.E. Method So I want to help survivors walk through the five stages of healing in the same way that I did, I want you to experience this peace. And so you will find more information about it on my website, thepassagetopeace.com. the five stages of healing, there's a free quiz on my website where you can take a quiz to tell you what stage of healing you're in. You can take a quiz to validate whether or not you're in a relationship with a narcissist. And then let me help you and guide you through the five stages of healing.

Tasha Collier (29:00)

I love it. So where can people find you on your social platforms and how can people connect with you to work with you?

Marcia Williams, LPC (29:07)

I am on every social media platform there is, including YouTube. have a YouTube channel, Passage to Peace. My handles on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok are Passage to Peace. And ⁓ I do one-on-one coaching. I do group coaching. I am domestic and international. I work with clients all over the world, and I just really feel honored and blessed to have 30 years of experience plus my clinical expertise to share with people who are on the same journey.

Tasha Collier (29:41)

Well, I am just so excited to see you walking in freedom, in peace, in confidence, in joy and solitude. And this is a you that I had never experienced before five years ago. And I am just so glad that you are free. I'm so glad that somehow some way you had the courage to leave.

I don't know how after 30 years you got the courage to actually believe in yourself and believe that you could walk away and leave everything behind. Leave me behind, leave your family behind, take the clothes on your back and hope for the best. I don't know how you did it. And I'm just in such admiration of you. And I'm so inspired by you just knowing that you went through and in all the ways that you were groomed that you still somehow got the courage to walk out that day and Even though you went back You left again and you never went back again, and I am just so proud So so proud and so joyous for the journey that you're in now and with that said I can't wait to see what's next and I'm ready to be on that next ride with you as well.

Marcia Williams, LPC (31:14)

Sister, thank you so much. That means everything to me, everything to me. And I just want to be a beacon of hope for anyone and everyone who says they're stuck, who says they don't know how to move forward. Well, neither did I. Neither did I. And I didn't have a plan until one was presented to me and then I would take that next step until the next plan presented itself. But it just, it took my rock bottom. It literally took my rock bottom to say, you know what? I thought I was going to be here for the rest of my life, but if I stay, I'll die. I'll die emotionally. I'll die mentally. I'll die psychologically. I'll die financially. And I could not be happier that I made that really,really tough decision and I thank you so much for your love and your support. I don't know how you did it People probably know you if you haven't seen my interview where I interviewed my sister Please check it out on my youtube channel Because it was not easy for you. So thank you for Letting me go because you couldn't help me and just accepting that this is what it is so I thank you.

Tasha Collier (32:40)

Very hard. Well, I'm glad we're both still here and still friends and still loving each other. So, hallelujah for that.

Marcia Williams, LPC (32:48)

Thank you.