From Flight to Fight - The Truth About Reactive Abuse

You tried to communicate. You tried therapy. You tried being vulnerable. You tried leaving the room. You tried silence. And when nothing else worked, you fought back. You yelled. You said cruel things. Maybe you even got physical. And now you're carrying shame because you think that makes you just as bad as them.

It doesn't.

In this episode, we're talking about reactive abuse - the thing that keeps survivors stuck in guilt for years, often even after they leave. It's the moments you're not proud of. The times you snapped after being pushed past your breaking point. The reactions the narcissist weaponized against you to prove YOU were the problem.

Here's what you need to understand: Reactive abuse isn't you being abusive. It's you finally going into fight mode after flight stopped working. It's your nervous system saying "I give up trying to survive any other way." And the narcissist baited you into it on purpose because they needed you to react. Your reaction validated their narrative, gave them ammunition, made you doubt yourself, and kept you trapped trying to prove you weren't crazy.

I'm sharing my own experiences with reactive abuse in my 30-year marriage - the aggression, the affair, the shame spiral that kept me compliant for years. Because I want you to understand that if a licensed therapist with over 23 years of clinical experience can fall into this pattern, you are not alone. And you are not the problem.

We break down:

• What reactive abuse actually is and why it happens
• The narcissist's strategy and why they NEED you to react
• How to recognize when you've been baited
• The difference between reactive abuse and actual abuse
• How to break the cycle and stop taking the bait
• Why you need to forgive yourself and release the shame

If you've ever wondered if you're the narcissist, if you've been called abusive for how you responded to being abused, if you're carrying guilt about moments you wish you could take back - this episode is for you.

Stop punishing yourself for being human under inhumane conditions. Your reactions were survival. Now it's time to heal.

Every Monday at 7 PM EST, join me live in The Healing Room on TikTok and Instagram where we break trauma bonds together.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Healing Lounge. I'm Marcia, licensed therapist and narcissistic abuse recovery coach. This topic is about reactive abuse. And I need to tell you up front, this one is gonna hit different because we're talking about the moments you're not proud of, the times you yelled back, said something cruel, maybe even threw something, which I can relate to all of the above. The moments that make you wonder if maybe you're just as bad as the narcissist. Here's what I need you to know before we get into this. You are not alone. And by the end of this conversation, you're gonna understand why. Reactive abuse is one of the most misunderstood aspects of narcissistic abuse. And it's the thing that keeps survivors stuck in shame for years after they leave. Because the narcissist used your reactions as proof that you were the problem. But here's the thing: your reaction didn't happen in a vacuum, it happened after prolonged provocation, after being pushed past what any human being should have to endure. And that context changes everything. So if you've been carrying guilt about how you've responded to being abused, this episode is for you. It's time to stop punishing yourself for being human under inhumane conditions. Let's get into it. Welcome to the healing room. Come on in, everybody. Let's get going with our topic tonight. I'm so excited. I'm always excited because you are going to be inspired. You're going to be motivated. You're going to be educated. All of these things are going to happen to you tonight because you're here in the healing room. Welcome everybody. My name is Marcia Williams. I am a licensed therapist and a narcissistic abuse recovery coach. I am here for you every Monday night in the Healing Lounge. No, the Healing Lounge is my podcast. I'm there too. But tonight is the healing room. So TikTok, Instagram, let's get it going. I just have so much to share, mainly because of my own 30-year marriage to a narcissist. And I've been divorced for now six years. Proud to say, the lucky number six that I have been divorced, living my very best life. Could not be happier. And I want you to be happy too, because you can be. It's attainable. And I want to help you find your peace, protect your peace, be free, stay free. That's what I'm doing. And that's what I want you to do. So welcome to the healing room. I have so much to share with you tonight that I am going to kind of be laser focused on sharing this information with you. So feel free to put your comments, your questions in the chat because I'm not the only one here. Okay. This is a community. This is a community of healing. And so you are amongst friends. We can all relate to each other in some way, shape, or form as it pertains to having been or being in a relationship with someone who presents with narcissistic tendencies. And I say that very specifically because we are not here to diagnose a narcissist. That's not what I do. I'm not a doctor. You may or may not be a doctor. I'm going to assume that you're not, but if you are great, yay you. But it's not about the diagnosis, it's about your experience. And that's all I care about. And that's all I want you to care about is your experience. Thank you for joining. Thank you for the likes. Keep the likes coming. I greatly appreciate that. We want to let people know that we are here. We are healing. We are breaking trauma bonds in the healing room. My topic tonight is about reactive abuse. I hope you're ready for this topic. Reactive abuse. If anyone is familiar with this term reactive abuse, feel free to put it in the chat. Share it with the community. But I am going to go deep into this conversation. And I'm going to share with you where this is coming from for me, why this resonates with me personally, not just as a licensed therapist, not just as a narcissistic abuse recovery coach, but what I bring to you is my own personal experience. That's what I'm grateful for. Can anybody say, if you can't say it today, you'll say it soon, that you are grateful for your relationship with a narcissist? Sounds weird, right? But why? It's because you have learned so much about yourself. And from what you've learned about yourself, you have grown. You are growing. You are healing and you are loving every minute of it. Not true because it's not fun. It's not fun. Wouldn't wish it on anybody. But if this is the path that I'm on, I'm going to embrace it. And I want you to embrace it. This is not about the narcissist. This is about you. This is about your healing journey. Okay? Reactive abuse. This is something that keeps us stuck for years. And it's something that we're afraid to admit. Can you imagine saying, yes, I'm abusive too? No, we're we're more familiar with surviving a narcissistic relationship. We're more familiar with being the victim. And I know most of us hate that word, but at one point we were victims. Until we became aware of what is happening to us, we were victims. And so with that being said, um this topic is really going to hit home, hopefully for everybody in some way, shape, or form, because I'm going to be sharing with you why sometimes we feel or fear we're the narcissist. Why does the narcissist tell us we're the narcissist? You know, if you've experienced that, shout out, raise your hand, give a like, let us know. I did. My ex-narcissist absolutely told me I was a narcissist. He told me I was selfish, I was self-centered, I was vain, everything is all about me. So if you've heard these things before, then you know what I'm talking about. And I see all the likes going up. So I know that this is a familiar topic. But what we, what I want to help you understand tonight is that reactive abuse is the outcome of what we experience in a relationship with a narcissist or someone who is abusive or toxic in any way, shape, or form. Awareness is the key. And the more you know about yourself, the more empowered you are, the more control you have. Because if we haven't learned it yet in a relationship with a narcissist, we cannot control them, we cannot change them. We're done with that. We're focusing on us. What is it about me? That's what I am focused on. That's what I'm concerned about. When you get yelled at, you yell back. When they say something cruel to you, you say something cruel back. And maybe you even take it a step further and try to say something even more cruel because you want to hurt them, because you're being hurt. So this is what survival looks like. This is just another aspect of surviving in a relationship with a narcissist or a toxic relationship, period. Okay, let's talk about what is reactive abuse. It's inevitable. You know what? I'm gonna talk about me first for a minute. I became very, very aggressive. Very aggressive. I wanted to hurt him a lot and often. And I came up with many different ways to try to cause him physical harm. Now, fortunately for him, he was very tall and very large. And so there was basically not a whole lot I could do to physically hurt him. But when I realized that my words didn't hurt him, when I realized that my tears didn't evoke empathy from him, sympathy from him, when I realized that there was nothing that I could do to get his attention, to get validation, to feel safe, to get him to understand that he was hurting me. When there was nothing I could do, I resorted to abuse. Now I didn't know I was being abused emotionally, mentally, psychologically, sexually, spiritually. I didn't know I was being abused. And so I didn't know that I was reacting to abuse. And this is why I love all of the topics that we talk about here in the healing room, because it's enlightening and it's validating when you can understand why, not just about them, but you. Why did I act the way I did? Why did I do the things I did? I had an affair during my marriage. I never would have imagined in a million years that I would have an affair. I would never have imagined that. I went into my marriage ready to be the most loyal, faithful, dedicated person I could possibly be because I wanted to be the best wife that a woman could be and the best mom that I could be. And after the whole blow-up of the affair, I just could not believe that I stooped that low. And the shame and the guilt was just horrific, which meant to me, this is not who I am. Why am I acting and doing things that are just not me? I am not this mean, batshit, crazy person who wants to harm him every chance I get. What is happening to me? I wish I had known back then that I was experiencing and demonstrating uh I was reacting to abuse. And now that I know it's so validating, um, not that it makes it okay, because listen, I am not encouraging violence. I am explaining why we get so out of character when we're in a relationship with a narcissist, when we are being abused in any way, shape, or form. It could be by a parent, a spouse, a sibling, a friend, whatever it is, why do we resort to things and behaviors and thoughts that we would have otherwise never, never considered doing, thinking or being. And the way that I reacted to the abuse that I was experiencing in my marriage, I could not explain it. And all I could do was feel shame and guilt. And my behavior was used against me, it was weaponized and used against me, and I was made to be the problem, regardless of what was being done to me. The focus became on what I was doing to him or to the marriage. And so I couldn't even deny that because yes, I did these things. And because I have empathy, I care about hurting someone that I love, which is very different from how a narcissist experiences how they inflict abuse upon us. And so this behavior is what I want to explain to you tonight, not so that you can excuse it, but so that you can understand it and give yourself compassion to understand just how deep narcissistic abuse goes into who we are, our being, our actual being. It changes you as a person. It changed me as a person when a victim responds to prolonged abuse with their own aggressive behavior. That's what reactive abuse is. Once we start doing that, the narcissist then uses your reaction as proof that you're the problem. See, look at you, look how you're acting. You're crazy. Look what you did. You had an affair with what was said to me. You are hitting me. You are calling me names. How are you gonna, you know, talk about me? Look at what you're doing. This is how the narcissist weaponizes our reactions to their abuse. It's a setup. We are literally being set up again because we are reacting to the abuse that we are experiencing, and that is what's weaponized and used against us. And it works. It works like a charm. The narcissist loves it. Why do you think they bait us? Why do you think they manipulate us? Why do you think they push our buttons constantly to get us to react? Why do you think gray rocking is the number one tool? Why do you think no contact is inevitable if you want to protect yourself from narcissistic abuse? Because if we're not doing those things, then we are going to react. It's very difficult to not react to being abused. It's very difficult. You're human. I'm human. How can I not react until I understand? Because you can not react, but you have to understand first. You have to understand what's happening to you first. So let me tell you why this happens. You can only take so much before your nervous system says, I give up. This is what it feels like. It feels like the only option is to fight fire with fire. We literally learn how to play their game. That is reactive abuse, is when we play their game. And then here's the confusing part because I say this all the time. You have to play their game if you're going to be in a relationship with them, because so many of us have not left the relationship yet. And so if you haven't left the relationship yet, you can't fight narcissistic abuse with empathy, with more love, with more anything. You won't win. You have to play their game. So, but now we're talking about when we've learned to play their game so well that it almost becomes second nature. And honestly, what's actually happening is your nervous system is shutting down and saying, I give up trying to survive, trying to protect myself, trying to change them, trying to fix this. I give up. So fight fire with fire. That's just another form of survival. So after months or years of gaslighting, the silent treatment, the lies, the betrayal, manipulation, the walking on eggshells, your body goes into fight mode because flight is no longer working. So you've heard that a lot, I'm sure. Fight or flight or fawn, you freeze. We're talking about fight mode. Reactive abuse is going into fight mode. We know flight mode very well. We know freeze mode very well. Now we're talking about fight mode. When we go into fight mode, this isn't you being abusive. This is you finally fighting back. Now, of course it's not the healthiest way, but you're not in a healthy relationship. You're not in a healthy environment, you're not in a healthy situation. You tried the healthy way. Let's go to counseling, let's talk about it, let's trust each other, let's be vulnerable. Well, we tried that, right? What happened? It was weaponized and used against us. And so now we're fighting back with abuse. Does not make it okay. I'm explaining what happens when we are impacted by narcissistic abuse. And so that is what manipulation is designed to do to get us to take the bait so that we can react. So we either react with defensiveness, we react with tears, crying, we react with um retreating, eggshell walking, or we react by fighting back. It's the narcissist's strategy. They need you to react because it serves multiple purposes. Here's why the narcissist needs you to react. And I mean needs you to react. It validates their narrative, which is the only thing they care about, is that you're the problem. You're the unstable one. That's number one. Number two, it gives them ammunition to use against you later. Well, remember last week when you called me this name and that name? Remember last week when you hung up on me and now you're mad because I'm hanging up on you? Everything we do will be weaponized against us. Number three, the strategy is that it makes you doubt yourself. Maybe I am the problem. Maybe I am the narcissist. We're often called the narcissist because we're reacting to the abuse when in fact we are acting just like them. I learned to act just like him. I learned to act just like him. My affair was a reaction to not only his affairs, but to his abuse toward me. Does not make it right. I'll probably say that a million times. We're not justifying this behavior. We're understanding it. And I am not making an excuse for any of my behavior, my affair, my reactions to his abuse. It is not justification. This is very, very important. There is a big difference between explaining and understanding our behavior and justifying it. And that's not what we're doing, okay? So I want to make that really clear. The next thing that the narcissist needs us, the next reason that the narcissist needs us to react is because it keeps us in the relationship trying to prove that we're not crazy. It keeps us confused. Why am I acting this way? Why am I doing these things that I would have never thought that I would do? Why am I talking this way? And I never would have said these words before. It keeps us confused. It keeps us trying to prove that we're not the problem. And lastly, it gives them content for their smear campaign. That's a big one. Because when it comes time, when you've decided to leave or when you've decided I've had enough, oh, they've got a laundry list. Well, you did this, well, you did that. And I promise you, after 30 years of marriage, when I finally said I was leaving, that's exactly what he said. Well, you had an affair. Forget about his, forget about all of the behaviors of his, but it's because I had an affair that we are where we are today. Okay. So no matter how long ago it was, no matter how short, long, none of that matters, it is going to be used against you. The shame spiral. Let's talk about the spiral of shame that I was in for so long. I remember saying to myself, what I did was so wrong that I'm going, I will spend the rest of my life making up for it if I have to. I am going to prove that that's not who I am. I'm going to prove my love. I'm going to prove how sorry I am. I'm going to prove how much I take responsibility for what I did. And I remember saying, I am going to do whatever it takes. And when I tell you for four and a half years straight, that is exactly what he used to get whatever he wanted from me. Looking back in hindsight, it's just it's just like wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. So remember, you guys, I'm a licensed therapist. I am a narcissistic abuse recovery coach. I've been a licensed therapist for over 23 years. All of this happened to me. You are not alone. And with the experience, the clinical experience I have, along with my personal experience, I'm here to tell you that you're not the problem. Do you have issues that need to be addressed in therapy? Absolutely. And hopefully, all of you, or most of you, and if you're not, you're planning to get into therapy because the narcissist didn't make you who you are. They found you the way you were and they capitalized on it. Okay? Own your stuff and work on yourself. And that's where your true freedom is. But as long as we're focusing on how they were the problem and what they did to me, that's where we can get stuck. And I want to help you get unstuck. So if you need help getting unstuck, please go to my bio. Please let me help you. I have coaching services. I have programs. I'm running a seven-week program right now that is just so amazing. It's my third year running this program, and I'm so thankful to have this group, this cohort. I do it four times a year. If you're interested in any of my services, please DM me. Okay. Let's talk about the shame spiral before I let you go. After you react, you feel horrible. That was me. You pro you apologize profusely. That was me. I was sorry every day, every minute of the day, and I wanted to make up for it in every way I could, every day. You promise you'll never do it again. You start believing maybe you are just as bad as the narcissist. And so when they call you things related to being a narcissist, you're like, hmm, well, I did do this, that, and that. Maybe he or she is right. But this is exactly what they want. It's exactly what they want. So your shame keeps you compliant. And I was more than compliant for so long, and it kept me stuck. And I'm even gonna say trapped. Here's how to recognize you've been baited. They say something that is meant to hurt you and then act shocked when you respond the way you do. I can't tell you how many times that happened to me. I cannot tell you how many times that happened to me. It happened so often that my go-to, and I do not recommend this for anyone, but my go-to reaction, my go-to abusive reaction was to grab his fingers and try to bend them backwards as far as I could. And he got so used to me doing that or trying to do that that he would immediately quench his hands when he would say something that he knew I was going to react abusively to. He was doing it on purpose. He would say what he would say and then clip his hands because he knew I was coming for the fingers. That's just one example, just one of many. But the bait, it's really hard to not take the bait. And yes, it becomes a cycle. They push and push and push until you snap, and then you're the aggressive one. They remain calm while you're losing it. Oh, this is a good one. This is a good one. I will never forget when we went to our first couple's therapy session. I just spewed it all out. I just 30 years, well, 25 years of crap, just spewing, spewing, spewing, spewing, spewing. And he was so quiet the whole time. So was the therapist, by the way. My ex was so quiet the whole time. And when I was finished, because I was out of breath, he said, he looked at the therapist and said, See, Doc, see what I'm dealing with? See what I got to deal with? This is crazy. Where is all this coming from? And he was just as calm as he could possibly be. And I was like, and he's like, you know, he's, I mean, he set me up. He got me good. He got me good. So they remained calm because they are in control. When we lose it, when I lost it, every time I lost it, it gave him the power. So after you react, they play victim to everyone who listened. Man, this is what she did to this is what she did. She did this, she did that. Can you believe I'm still putting up with this? He's the victim. And you feel like you're going insane. The difference between reactive abuse and actual abuse. Number one, actual abusers do not feel remorse for their actions. They don't apologize and swear to make up for it for the rest of their lives. Number two, actual abusers use control tactics consistently over time. Consistently. Number three, active abusers don't react to prolonged provoking. They create it. They don't react to being provoked. They create provocation. Okay? So you're being provoked, you're constantly being provoked, but they don't react. They don't react. They create it. Lastly, if you're worried about your abuser, you're probably not an abuser. Let me say that again. And this is very similar to what I say all the time. If you sit around wondering if you are possibly the abuser, if you're possibly a narcissist, then you're probably not. Because a narcissist or an abuser do not sit around saying, dang, I hope I'm not a narcissist. Oh gosh, I really hope I'm not a narcissist. Oh my gosh, I hope that wasn't abusive. Oh, maybe, no, they're not doing any of that ever. But you and me, yeah, we feel like crap if we think about what we did. We feel like crap when they act like the victim when we actually did do something for them to feel like a victim, not realizing we were provoked or baited. So my own experiences tell me so very clearly that what my behavior was demonstrating was reactive abuse. And that's what I want you to understand tonight is you are reacting to abuse if you're in a relationship with a narcissist. If you're asking yourself if you're the abusive one, if you're the problem, if you're the narcissist, you're not. Because the abuser or the narcissist does not ask themselves that question because they don't believe they are. Why? Because we're the problem, remember? Don't forget, we're the problem. They're not going to wonder if it's them because they know it's us. And then we take it on because we're empathetic, we care, we love, and so we want to fix. We don't want to hurt, we want to fix. That is the difference between an empath and a narcissist. Most important, how to break the cycle before we go. First, stop expecting yourself to be perfect or healthy in an abusive relationship. It's not possible. It's not possible to be healthy and in survival mode at the same time. It's not possible. Number two, you are human. You're human. You have been pushed. We have been pushed beyond what any person should endure. That is why CPTSD is a thing. Third, you recognize the pattern so you can start protecting yourself. That's how you break the cycle. Recognize the pattern of manipulation so that you can identify it. Because when you're identifying something, you're thinking, you're observing. But if you're not thinking and observing, you're reacting, you're engaging, you're taking the bait. Big, big, big, big difference. Think, don't feel. I always say there's two things you have to protect in a relationship with a narcissist: your information and your feelings. Okay? Next, gray rock, yellow rock, all the rocks. Rocks, just don't throw them. Okay. We're trying to not react to the abuse. Gray rocking, being very dull in your responses. No matter what they say, they can call you any name in the book, say, okay. They can tell you you're a narcissist. Oh, okay. They can say that you're a horrible mom. Oh, wow, okay. I'm sorry you feel that way. Whatever you need to say that has nothing to do with how you really feel is what you say. Yellow rocking looks like this. You're a horrible mom. Oh, darn. I'll try harder. But thank you for that feedback. You make me sick. You're disgusting. What would you like for dinner? I'm starved. Yellow rocking is saying anything that you don't really feel with a smile. Harder to do than gray rocking. It's all hard. So do the hard thing. One of my favorite people knows and says that. Do the hard thing. Be afraid and do it anyway. Next, get out of the environment. Now, I will never tell a client to leave because it took me 30 years to leave. So I will never say that. And yet, and still, it is the ultimate end result because you cannot be healthy in a relationship with a narcissist. You have to remove yourself from the environment. You can start healing now if you're still in the relationship. You can start healing now. You can start protecting your peace now. And I want to help you do that. But true healing and true health cannot happen in a relationship, in a toxic relationship. So leaving is the ultimate goal. But that's too hard to hear. If you had told me that anytime before I left, I would not have listened. I had been told that. I would not have listened. So I know from experience. And now when I work with my clients, that's not what we talk about. But you're going to ultimately get there. And because of my experience and my clinical knowledge, I know how to get you there without telling you to leave. But I promise you, if you work with me, that's going to be the end result. Because I know it's the only way for you to be safe emotionally, mentally, psychologically, and any other way, verbally. It is the only way. Because how how often do we talk about how much they're not going to change? How to let go of hope, how to stop trying to fix. If you accept those things, you can't stay. Ultimately, I digress. You cannot heal in the same place that broke you. I am going to say that again. You cannot heal in the same place that broke you. The hard truth here is that your reactions give them exactly what they need. They need you to react, but that doesn't make you responsible for the abuse that you are enduring. They created the environment. Stop carrying shame for how you respond to being traumatized. That's what reactive abuse is. What do you do now? Forgive yourself. Like I had to forgive myself for the things that you're not proud of. Understand that reactive abuse is proof of trauma, not a character. Um, a couple of other things you can do, and then I'm gonna let you go. Document, document, document, journal, journal, journal. When you feel manipulated, instead of reacting or responding, write about it, write it down. Turn it into go to school. Literally, in your own home, in your own relationship, go to school, go to work, write it down, document, study it, learn. Because the more you know, the more you are able to protect yourself from manipulation and from abuse, and then get support from people who understand, such as me, such as any other therapist or coach who understands narcissistic abuse. I created the five stages of healing called the peace method. Go to the link in my bio. And whatever I can do to support you, I'm happy to do. Thank you all so much for being here. I greatly appreciate you prioritizing you because that's what I consider your presence here tonight. You're not just here to help heal yourself, but your presence, your participation is helping others to know they're not alone. We're in this together, we're healing together, we're breaking trauma bonds together. Let's go. Let's do it. Let's do it. We're doing it. All right, you guys, take care, be well, love yourself, forgive yourself, stop reacting, but it takes practice. So self-compassion is the key. Take care, everybody. Hey survivors, here's what I need you to take away from this episode. That shame you've been carrying about the moments you reacted, it's time to let go. Your reaction didn't happen in a vacuum, it happened after months or years of being pushed past your breaking point. That's not you being abusive. That's you being human. The narcissist baited you so that they could use your reaction against you. Now that you see the setup, you can stop punishing yourself for falling for it. Here's your homework. Write down the moment you're most ashamed of. Then write down everything that led up to it. How long had you been provoked? How many times had you tried to communicate? Context matters. And when you see the full picture, the shame starts to lift. You're not the abuser. You are the one being abused who finally fought back. There is a difference. If this resonated, share it with someone who needs to hear it. And every Monday night at 7 p.m. Eastern, I go live in the healing room on TikTok and Instagram. And if you're ready to go deeper, my P2P Essentials 7-week program launches every quarter of the year. The next one is coming in May, and the link is in the show notes. Until next time, keep healing, keep growing, and keep choosing yourself. I'm Marcia, and this is the Healing Lounge.